Meet the guv'nor

AS a prison governor, Debra Baldwin hardly fits the stereotype. For a start, and though to say so may be politically incorrect, she's a woman. She's also warm and very friendly - more older sister than strict hard liner. As she leads me through the grounds of Deerbolt, a sprawling complex in Barnard Castle, she's greeted with smiles and hellos. She could be just another boss - except for the swathes of barbed wire and high steel fences. Young male inmates mooch around, amorphous in their pale grey tracksuits. If they have an opinion on Debra - or indeed a female taking charge - they don't show it.

Having only become the governor in the first week of May, it's early days for Debra's leadership of Deerbolt. She took the reins from Alan Tallentire, now governor of Durham Prison, and her first task, she brightly informs me, was to give his office a lick of paint. As this is ongoing, our interview is in a small, box-like room with little cheer. This, and the fact that we're locked in, is not exactly welcoming, yet Debra quickly puts me at ease as she tells me how she came to work in prisons.

"I joined the prison service in September 1998," she says. "Before that, I was doing all sorts of stuff - I have a background in social service work, probation and the criminal justice system. I just happened to see an advertisement for a fast track into the prison service and got into it that way. Most recently I was at Buckley Hall in Rochdale."

While her latest work has been with female inmates, Debra, 40, says she was keen to come to Deerbolt, which houses 18 to 21-year-old men. "I did a lot of youth work before I joined the prison service in terms of working with young people in care and working as part of a youth justice team, I suppose it would have been called then," she says. "I've worked in a juvenile prison and young men are very different to the women I've been working with recently. It's very rewarding to be governor of a young offenders' institution."

As far as the future is concerned, Debra has lots of plans - not least moving from her home in Bolton, Greater Manchester, to be nearer work. While conceding that it will take time, she wants to really make her mark. "The future for Deerbolt, I think, is engaging much more in reducing reoffending, so whilst there are currently a good range of interventions that we know will reduce the risk of reoffending, I'd like to develop them even more over the next 12 to 18 months," she says. "We do quite a lot of vocational training here which leads to NVQs, which enhance employment opportunities when these young men leave prison. I'd quite like to develop some work experience for some of our low risk prisoners so they could really maximise the opportunities that have been made available to them in prison. A lot of these young men may never have had the experience of actually going to work."

As a specialist unit, Deerbolt is strict about admissions. Most inmates are serving less than four years overall, and the average time they spend there - for crimes like shoplifting or burglary - is just six months. In prison terms, they're ripe for rehabilitation.

"The focus is very much on rehabilitation," Debra confirms. "We do some drug intervention programmes and cognitive behavioural therapy. Most of our programmes have been developed using a lot of what we know from psychological research in terms of changing human behaviour. We know that there are some factors that reduce the risk of reoffending and they are things like having stable accommodation, a job or training course to attend, quite strong family support and a drug-free life."

But what happens when things go wrong? Last year, in a highly publicised fall from grace, Deerbolt was the scene of riots. In two separate incidents, in February and June, inmates ran wild, smashing up the prison and desecrating its chapel. It was the bleakest chapter in a largely trouble-free history.

While Debra wasn't there, she doesn't shrink from discussing it. "Most prisoners want to feel safe - they don't want to be involved in incidents, and neither do staff," she says. "Equally, there were a couple of incidents last year when prisoners did behave in an undisciplined manner and caused criminal damage and committed criminal acts. We are trained to deal with such incidents. Both were investigated at the time and I'm absolutely confident that should another incident happen, my staff will deal with it in an extremely competent manner because that's what we do."

So what of the cause of the riots? Surely that must be grounds for concern. Debra seems to take the view that in a prison environment, such things will happen. "We lock up 18 to 21-year-old young men whose behaviour is often unpredictable and is, at times, violent," she says. "I think in running a prison, one has to remember that the young men have committed a criminal offence and therefore have a propensity to misbehave and not abide by rules and regulations. I think we have a level of security and disciplinary procedures within the prison to allow us to maintain a safe environment for staff and prisoners."

As a woman, I wonder if inmates respond to her differently, if she thinks this makes a difference. Perhaps predictably, she says otherwise. "I think running a prison is very much about a skills set that one can develop, irrespective of gender," says Debra. "It's really important for prisoners to have positive role models and people that they can look up to and respect, and who treat them with respect, and I think all my staff strive to do that. I think it's very good for the young men here to see women in a variety of roles."

That said, Debra admits she has a certain style, which some may see as feminine. "Certainly for me, my staff are the be all and end all," she says. "They can approach me and talk to me. I think good leadership demands that you interact in a positive and open manner with your staff."

While she may be relaxed, when it comes to discipline, she claims she's firm. "I think first and foremost these young men have committed a criminal offence," she says. "How I feel about them personally in a sense doesn't matter. I think there is space for an understanding of people's histories but their childhood and the difficult times they may have had certainly don't excuse their criminal behaviour."

On the other hand, she can't always be so detached. "There are events that happen in the job that are emotionally distressing, certainly when you're dealing with someone who self-harms, and particularly in the aftermath of someone taking their own life," Debra admits. "But in terms of the daily interactions you have, they are done on a professional level, with the right degree of emotion for the interaction you're having."

To her credit - and in contrast with many in society, let alone the prison service - when it comes to young people, she holds a balanced view. "I think statistics show that young people do commit a disproportionate amount of crime but equally, they're most likely to be the victims of crime. It depends which side you want to see," says Debra. "I think there's probably enough evidence if you wanted to put it together to demonise young people as a section of the population but I don't really have a bad impression of anybody. I think I've got to believe that even if someone's committed a criminal offence, they can change. It's not about not seeing bad things in people, because people do do bad things, but fundamentally, I've got to believe that people can change because that's why I come to work every day."

It may be early enthusiasm, but somehow, I can't imagine her regretting coming to Deerbolt. "I've got a job where I can make a difference to people's lives," she says. "That's a fantastic position to be in."