It was several months ago but I can still remember the day, even the time. I don't suppose the other person - the deputy editor of this newspaper - has such a clear recollection of the conversation.
He has heard me out on this topic more times than he probably cares to remember.
I was talking, as I so often do, about anti-social behaviour. I was saying that I genuinely believed that if the Government did not change we'd be frequently seeing young people being killed by stolen cars, knives and guns.
Well, here is another prediction. Despite the outrage caused by the death of Rhys Jones, right, despite the pleas of his parents, the vows of the police to catch the perpetrators and the promises of politicians, it won't be long before there are similar deaths. It might be in London or Liverpool, or in a town or village near you. Wherever it is, another hitherto unthinkable incident will be crossed off our mental list of things that couldn't happen here.
When I saw the crowds in the streets and at the Liverpool-Toulouse football match paying their respects, my reaction, like yours, I imagine, was what kind, decent sympathetic people 99 per cent or more of our citizens really are. But I could take no comfort in that, as I think we have reached the point when decency, tolerance and similarly admirable qualities are no longer the solution.
That is because the other one per cent, who make up the murderers, the thieves and the wreckers, see decency as weakness and tolerance as softness. They have been indulged far too long by another minority - a well-intentioned and influential liberal elite - who believe that if we spend a lot of money, we can cajole, coax and educate them out of their ways.
I acknowledge that education and rehabilitation are integral to reforming individuals and society. But they are only part of the solution. An equally important element is punishment, a word that has become so little used that I almost expected my computer to flash up a spelling check query when I typed it. Punishment and deterrence must go hand in hand with rehabilitation and diversion from crime.
Above all, we must transfer the fear that victims and indeed all of us feel, to the criminals. They should fear detection, punishment and, above all, prison. I do not know if this week's prison officers' strike will win them a better pay deal. But it exposed once again the rottenness of a system in which prisoners' comforts, convenience and above all rights - now there's a word everyone's computer now recognises immediately - are given priority.
When Rhys's parents blamed his killers' parents they didn't go far enough. I would also blame the grandparents and the extended family too. When this awful case is solved no one will be surprised if the perpetrator comes from a family that will be described as well-known to the police, that being how we must describe inveterate villains in our politically correct times. That is why it is crucial that action on anti-social behaviour starts with families, with mothers and fathers-to-be. If it does not, we will never break the cycle of offending blighting our community.
This week politicians of all parties were talking tough about crime. That was encouraging, but we must let them understand the time for talk is over, that the limits of tolerance have been reached and that people will not take any more.
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