'Tony and I had our moments'

POPULAR legend has it, for those who live and breathe such things, that Alastair Campbell refers to it as his pension. The book that will detail his decade at Tony Blair's side, and his years at the centre of power. The highs and lows, the joyful victories and the explosive rows. All based on the diaries he kept throughout his time in Downing Street.

So it seems only fair to ask what he thinks of our former man in Washington. Sir Christopher Meyer, ambassador to the United States until 2003, published his own memoirs earlier this month. Although the Prime Minister came out of it quite well, most of the rest of the Cabinet did not, and the result is Sir Christopher came under ferocious attack for undermining the confidence of ministers in civil servants. Does Mr Blair's former chief press secretary think Sir Christopher was right to publish?

There's a long pause. A very long pause. Then: "The reason I'm hesitant is there is a lot of that I have just put behind me," he says. Then he seems to come to a conclusion. "I think it was wrong," he says with finality, but clearly some explanation is required.

"I have made it clear that at some point in the future I will do a book and it will be very open and very frank about things. I just think that, as an ambassador, your job is to help the government, and just to turn that into the tittle tattle that it was, I think it is wrong while the guys are still doing their job.

"Government has got to be able to operate on a certain basis. There are things that happen, there are rows, there are disagreements, it is just the way of the world. To be pouring that out while these guys are still doing the job is wrong."

So it's the fact Sir Christopher's subjects are still active in politics that makes it wrong? "I'm certainly not going to do anything while Tony is still around, and I'm not going to do anything which I think damages the Government," he says.

'I will do it when the time is right to do it, I'm not in a rush. As people know, I kept a diary and I have always kept a diary and I still do, although it is not quite as interesting as it was, but I think you have got to be careful."

He says it would be easy to make a big splash with titbits and gossip, "if that is where you get your rocks off", but that would do a disservice to his time in Downing Street. "Tony and I had our moments, we still do, but that would not define our relationship," he says.

Mr Campbell is in Newcastle to address business leaders in the North-East at the invitation of commercial lawyers, Mincoffs. These "Audience With" sessions are regular events for him now, and he'll follow it with a fund-raising evening in Alan Milburn's Darlington constituency.

He's much more affable than his image would allow, not at all the intimidating presence of legend. While not quite charming, he seems genial enough, although he appears to have a sort of amused detachment, and avoids eye contact, at least at first.

Although it's been more than two years since he left Number Ten, in the fall-out over the death of Dr David Kelly and the "dodgy dossier" on Iraq, he was brought back for six months in the run-up to this year's General Election and still speaks to the Prime Minister regularly.

"I talk to him the whole time," he says, although later he modifies this to, "We still talk, but it is nothing like it was," and then to, "I speak to him occasionally."

Whatever the relationship, it is clear his regard for his former boss is undimmed. Again, the popular myth may be wrong. It is widely believed that the Prime Minister was somewhat in awe of his chief press secretary, but perhaps it is really the other way around. "I still think Tony Blair is the right guy for the right time," he says. "The thing about Tony, I'll tell you what is amazing about him, is his ability, and Clinton had this as well, no matter what is going on, to get up in the morning and go to work.

"He once said that he found his life was a conspiracy against normality. You can't just go to a football match or go down the pub, and everybody has an opinion about you. I think that with all that is going on he has remained incredibly normal."

After spending more time with Mr Blair over a decade than anyone else apart from Cherie, and even then he may have the edge, he says it would have been odd if their relationship had come to an abrupt end. "It is not a question of him ringing up for advice, it is being friends," he says. "I know the way his mind works."

His earlier remark about his diary being less interesting suggests he misses Downing Street. "I do and I don't," he says. "There are things that I really miss and things I don't miss."

Chief amongst the things he doesn't miss is the Press. In the early days, he successfully wooed much of the media to New Labour's cause, but towards the end the relationship soured. Was any of that his fault? Not really. "I think a lot of it is them," he says.

"I don't deny there were some things I could have done differently, but I think what happened was they decided to make spin this big thing because it is about them in the end."

He has also been held at least partly responsible for the increasing disillusion with politics and the decline in trust in politicians, most obvious in falling election turn-out. Again, it's not his fault. It is the media which is mainly to blame, he says, although the public must take its share. "We have got three parts to this, the politicians, the media and the public. The media are trying to tell the public they're the only people who tell the truth, and they don't tell the truth all the time," he says.

"Most politicians in my mind are perfectly good people. And there has got to be some sense from the public that politics is important, the public has got to be responsible."

Not surprisingly, he is robust in defence of his role in government. "Communication is not a bad thing, it is important," he says. "You are trying to communicate with the public. You have just got to keep going. That is what Tony Blair is good at, he just keeps going," he adds, returning to his favourite theme.

"How many times have you had 'Blair's worst week'? He survives. It's menstrual, it comes around every month, but you just get on with it, keep going, you have a strategy, just see it through," he says, almost as if it's a well-used mantra.

What he does miss is being at the heart of events. His visit to Newcastle coincided with the first visit to Britain of the new German Chancellor Angela Merkel. "I do miss the big moments, and that is a big moment," he admits. "When he went to see Gadaffi," he being the Prime Minister, "that was the only time watching the news when I felt I wish I had been there."

But there was a downside to all this. "It is hard to convey to people the intensity and the sheer hardness of it. I never, ever had a day off, when I was not doing something and the phones weren't ringing."

He may have enjoyed the first holiday he can remember when he wasn't regularly interrupted this summer, but it's hard to shake off being at the heart of things. When he talks about the Government, it's always "we", or "us". Does he still feel part of it?

"I was conscious of that while I was saying it," he smiles. "It is partly force of habit. For ten years that is what I did. I said we, the Government, the party." But he sees no reason to be ashamed. "I feel really proud of what the Government has done. When this Government is written up it will be seen as a very successful Government." At least it will if Alastair Campbell has anything to do with it.